How “nazi glorification” became one of <em>Garry’s Mod</em>’s few prohibited acts

Creator says being a parent has made his moderation attitudes "less black and white."

See full article...

 

[peterford]

The Nazis were the bad guys. It's that simple.

I find it scary that some find this confusing and sadly that means we must always pay attention to the Warning From History

 

[Cyrano4747]

Good.

This stuff isn't that complex. You don't need a 10 page policy. If someone is being sketchy and seems to like Hitler a bit too much, just give them the boot.

Also, laughing that Garry's Mod apparently understands this better than the majority of the social media companies out there.

edit: Also making the Anti-Nazi rule on April 20 was brilliant.

 

[Deleted member 853890]

Letting shit like this fester in dark corners of the internet is one of the ways we ended up with a country with a white supremacy problem.

No Nazis, ever. It's not hard.

 

[unequivocal]

Meanwhile Musk is turning Twitter into a Nazi Bar as fast as he can (and he's doing it faster than I thought was possible).

 

[unequivocal]

Letting shit like this fester in dark corners of the internet is one of the ways we ended up with a country with a white supremacy problem.

The US has had a white supremacy problem far longer than Nazi ideology has existed. I agree with your "down with Nazi's and white supremacy" position but the US, in some ways, provided a template for the Nazis, not the other way around.

To support this position: The US had a lot of early eugenics promoters, and the Nazis adopted that ideology; US race laws could be seen as inspiration for the Nuremberg laws in Nazi Germany; and, I believe Hitler praised the US "racial purity" views in Mein Kampf directly.

 

[LordEOD]

When I was young, first it was firefighter, then it was doctor and then finally I wanted to be an astronaut.
I love my field and work now (which is none of those) but I have to wonder...

What type of home would I have to have grown up in to want to idealize nazis?

I've known all sorts of folk who's homes weren't ideal and some others that were outright abusive and negative and all of those folks still grew up knowing nazis are evil and embracing violence and murder are equally as bad.

Nobody is perfect, but idealizing nazis?
Something has to be terribly wrong there...

 

[C-A_99]

There's only one correct bar for Nazis to walk into: The one designed by Browning.

 

[BinaryMuppet]

Meanwhile Musk is turning Twitter into a Nazi Bar as fast as he can (and he's doing it faster than I thought was possible).

At least the feds know where to look for domestic terrorists. There's nowhere for these cockroaches to hide now.

 

[Fred Duck]

Who can say, really?

In my expert opinion, it's clearly a documentary.

 

[bburdge]

As a long time parent (my youngest is testing for their driving license today) I can totally understand the position. It's easy as a non-parent to yell "Parents should know what their kids are doing!" "Parents are responsible and if they can't keep their kids in control it's their fault!"

Then you have a few 3-7 year olds running around and you suddenly find yourself unsure if you are currently wearing pants. (You think politicians gaslight? Try a toddler.)

Then they start hitting the 9-13 range, and things are getting tough - oh you want to say no to a cellphone, but Bobby and Raj have cellphones so why can't they? And why can't they play Fortnite, it's so much fun when they sleepover with their friends.

And you're trying to find a balance, because you recognize they can't be cloistered like monks until 18 and then suddenly find out the world exists. But rule 34 is real, and what seems like a silly roblox game turns out to be f-ing nazis.

Long way of saying I totally support Newman on this.

 

[HiroTheProtagonist]

At least the feds know where to look for domestic terrorists. There's nowhere for these cockroaches to hide now.

Except for within law enforcement. They can apparently hide there quite easily while also drawing a paycheck.

 

[Nowicki]

The US has had a white supremacy problem far longer than Nazi ideology has existed. I agree with your "down with Nazi's and white supremacy" position but the US, in some ways, provided a template for the Nazis, not the other way around.

To support this position: The US had a lot of early eugenics promoters, and the Nazis adopted that ideology; US race laws could be seen as inspiration for the Nuremberg laws in Nazi Germany; and, I believe Hitler praised the US "racial purity" views in Mein Kampf directly.

The US provided a template for the nazis for sure. They looked to the legal framework established in the US for inspiration to creep their authoritarian inclinations.

 

[Dylan S]

Never played Garry’s Mod, but having played a handful of ww2 games I'm very familiar with this sort of issue. Most the time these guys are originally just edgy kids or young adults trying to be "funny", but it always goes too far.

I also have a lot of respect too for Garry doing this as these Hitler enthusiasts tend to be the type of people to harass anyone who tries to ban them or stop them from "being funny". Banning this stuff game-wide takes a lot of stress off of the individuals playing the game and trying to self-moderate their communities.

 

[Granadico]

As a long time parent (my youngest is testing for their driving license today) I can totally understand the position. It's easy as a non-parent to yell "Parents should know what their kids are doing!" "Parents are responsible and if they can't keep their kids in control it's their fault!"

Then you have a few 3-7 year olds running around and you suddenly find yourself unsure if you are currently wearing pants. (You think politicians gaslight? Try a toddler.)

Then they start hitting the 9-13 range, and things are getting tough - oh you want to say no to a cellphone, but Bobby and Raj have cellphones so why can't they? And why can't they play Fortnite, it's so much fun when they sleepover with their friends.

And you're trying to find a balance, because you recognize they can't be cloistered like monks until 18 and then suddenly find out the world exists. But rule 34 is real, and what seems like a silly roblox game turns out to be f-ing nazis.

Long way of saying I totally support Newman on this.

As a parent of a newly turned 6 year old I'm not looking forward to those issues. Even besides the fact that helicopter parenting is bad (it's hilarious that there's a huge cross section of people who against government interference of anything but are also apparently for giving kids no freedom), issues like Nazis, cults, etc. are run by people who are very good at manipulating people and the parts of the brain that make people illogical and run on fear. It doesn't matter how smart you think you are or how well you were raised when something like that has their grips on you. Letting the bad actors run free and abuse the system under the guise of freedom isn't a good strategy, but neither is acting like parents can (or should) know every facet of their kids lives.

 

[mknelson]

There's only one correct BAR for Nazis to walk into: The one designed by Browning.

Minor correction for you.

Why does the lead image have a WW1 SPAD and Rolls Royce armoured car? Is it because the Nazis sucked so hard they could only win against equipment from the previous war?

Nazi worshippers: The Nazis were the biggest losers! There are better underdogs to fanboy over!

 

[Frank C.]

We don't glorify monsters, tyrants or terrorists. Ever.

 

[Wallachia]

And you're trying to find a balance, because you recognize they can't be cloistered like monks until 18 and then suddenly find out the world exists. But rule 34 is real, and what seems like a silly roblox game turns out to be f-ing nazis.

Are you sure you're referring to the right "rule 34" here?

Unless we're talking about Roblox nazi porn?

 

[RickRoyLeonPrisZhoraRacha]

When I was young, first it was firefighter, then it was doctor and then finally I wanted to be an astronaut.
I love my field and work now (which is none of those) but I have to wonder...

What type of home would I have to have grown up in to want to idealize nazis?

I've known all sorts of folk who's homes weren't ideal and some others that were outright abusive and negative and all of those folks still grew up knowing nazis are evil and embracing violence and murder are equally as bad.

Nobody is perfect, but idealizing nazis?
Something has to be terribly wrong there...

Growing up, we had "skin heads" because they didn't want to conform nor did they want to be "non-conformists". They wanted to shock and piss off the majority, and so, they adopted what was (and should always be) the Nazis.
I'm all for history as it repeats and we need to learn from it. But I'd never want to play on some server with those idealizing this evil. I do enjoy history like weapons, and battles, but as a lesson, not infatuation or fanboyism. My uncles all fought in WW2, and I know I would never disrespect them, no matter how wrong war is.

 

[Sukasa]

Are you sure you're referring to the right "rule 34" here?

Unless we're talking about Roblox nazi porn?

They are referring to the right Rule 34, and you really do not want to know

 

[Marcus Andreus]

This reminds me of something that came to mind when I got my last GPU, and a free copy of Battlefield V: How many people are happy when they're on the Nazi side in games like that?

I get that some people like role-playing as evil characters, and I also get that to some people a game is just a set of functions that you're using in a competitive arena, but–combined with very realistic modern graphics–it all flies too close to the sun for me when it's taken together.

It also strikes me as unique to World War II-set games, as the Nazis really lack any kind of relative moral ambiguity you can consider about basically any other side, in any other war.

Online multiplayer shooters are absolutely not my thing, but I'm curious how many people think about it, or don't.

 

[bburdge]

They are referring to the right Rule 34, and you really do not want to know

Yea...

But it's more also a comment that there are multiple avenues of concern lurking.

 

[Aurich]

Well, it "only" took them 17 years to figure that out... WTF?

When people make good decisions, and change their mind about something because they've matured, we should applaud them for it, not ask what took so long.

I'd rather be an ally and welcome someone than shame them.

 

[bburdge]

As a parent of a newly turned 6 year old I'm not looking forward to those issues. Even besides the fact that helicopter parenting is bad (it's hilarious that there's a huge cross section of people who against government interference of anything but are also apparently for giving kids no freedom), issues like Nazis, cults, etc. are run by people who are very good at manipulating people and the parts of the brain that make people illogical and run on fear. It doesn't matter how smart you think you are or how well you were raised when something like that has their grips on you. Letting the bad actors run free and abuse the system under the guise of freedom isn't a good strategy, but neither is acting like parents can (or should) know every facet of their kids lives.

Yea, it's tough. If I was to give one piece of advice: make every effort to help your child trust that they can communicate anything with you and not get an immediately negative response.

You can't control the world and all the things that will come up in their lives. What you can control is how you react and that directly impacts how comfortable they are sharing things with you.

Sometimes it means choking down the immediate response you'll have as a parent to hearing something that scares or angers you. Take a moment, bring emotions under control, listen, and respond with empathy.

I won't say my wife or I always lived up to that ideal, obviously we're human and sometimes emotions rule the day. But there have been several key points in our kids' lives where I feel things could have gone very differently, possibly very negatively, had our kids not felt sufficiently secure to talk with us about things that were legitimately concerning.

 

[MGAubrey]

I have no problem with this.

 

[Tofystedeth]

Gerry's mod is still around? I remember playing around with it in what, 2004? It was fun for maybe 15 minutes, then I moved on..

The justification for this is incredible weak. He has kids now, so he's gone full wON't sOMEONE plEaSe thInk OF tHE chiLdReN?

Mark anything with this type of content NSFW, age gate it if necessary, and be done with it. Problem solved?

World War 2 is the backdrop for so many video games.. portrayals of Nazis or Nazi symbols that would be banned here are nothing new or even controversial. How do you do Wolfenstein without swastikas?

Displaying a symbol does not equal glorification. I think this goes too far..

Completely unsurprising that you'd be against something taking the unequivocal stance that Nazis are bad.

 

[HiroTheProtagonist]

Well, it "only" took them 17 years to figure that out... WTF?

Mate, do you honestly believe that people should have been able to predict the rise of neo-Nazism nearly two decades out? Because that's an Olympic-sized leap of logic. It's easy now to look back and say "well gee, maybe we should have put more explicitly anti-fascist policies in place back in the day", but back in 2006 the idea that Nazis were bad was pretty damn universal to the point that we didn't need to explicitly codify it in writing.

Of course, now this has roused my interest in getting back into GMod. I haven't touched it in several years, but I do recall having some fun with TTT and the WarioWare gamemodes.

 

[DovePig]

When people make good decisions, and change their mind about something because they've matured, we should applaud them for it, not ask what took so long.

I'd rather be an ally and welcome someone than shame them.

You're right, I stand corrected. I do indeed appreciate they made this decision now, even if I would have welcomed it earlier myself (coming from Europe, I might have had a somewhat different stance on Nazi propaganda, even if we have a lot of them here as well). It's still a pretty good decision, obviously, and kudos to them for that!

 

[linnen]

Growing up, we had "skin heads" because they didn't want to conform nor did they want to be "non-conformists". They wanted to shock and piss off the majority, and so, they adopted what was (and should always be) the Nazis.
I'm all for history as it repeats and we need to learn from it. But I'd never want to play on some server with those idealizing this evil. I do enjoy history like weapons, and battles, but as a lesson, not infatuation or fanboyism. My uncles all fought in WW2, and I know I would never disrespect them, no matter how wrong war is.

There are antifa skinhead groups from almost the beginning of the movement. Of course, given a choice, the police preffer to go after the antifa groups.

 

[Aurich]

You're right, I stand corrected.

We should applaud people allowing for being corrected on the internet too!

 

[DCRoss]

There are antifa skinhead groups from almost the beginning of the movement. Of course, given a choice, the police preffer to go after the antifa groups.

Going after the nazis tends to make things very awkward at work the next morning.

 

[watermeloncup]

Nazis are bad.
But does that mean we should wipe them out in totality, including their symbols, regardless of context? You know who tried to do such a thing? The Nazis, with their book burnings.

Do you think Inglorious Basterds glorified the Nazis? (Including this rhetorical question just so I can include this video clip )

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6GUWfmW4dg

It's a lot easier and less prone to abuse to have bright line policies like "no swastikas". It would be great if the admins could come up with more nuanced policies, but that would be much more difficult to enforce.

 

[OptimusP83]

Its sad that free speech absolutists tend to lack so little awareness and empathy (and so grossly overestimate their critical thinking skills) that they presume that every person, including children, should be able to parse good/right/moral speech from bad/heinous/awful speech therefore all speech is "just fine".

The fact that it took having kids of his own to get him to understand that there is nuance in the world would be sad...if it weren't so common...

 

[DovePig]

Mate, do you honestly believe that people should have been able to predict the rise of neo-Nazism nearly two decades out? Because that's an Olympic-sized leap of logic. It's easy now to look back and say "well gee, maybe we should have put more explicitly anti-fascist policies in place back in the day", but back in 2006 the idea that Nazis were bad was pretty damn universal to the point that we didn't need to explicitly codify it in writing.

Of course, now this has roused my interest in getting back into GMod. I haven't touched it in several years, but I do recall having some fun with TTT and the WarioWare gamemodes.

Predict the rise of it? Probably. I remember plenty of really violent neo‑Nazi demos back around the 2000s here in Europe. Their scene was actually more violent and prevalent than today, even if somewhat smaller (before it merged with all the conspiracy theorists, anti‑vaxxers, incels and all the others like pro‑Russian Nazis*).

That said, my initial comment you reacted to was perhaps needlessly snarky and in hindsight not really helpful, as nobody much imagined the ways these groups would radicalise online as such – it was pretty much all offline through concerts or demos back then.

*: Russia always had the highest amount of neo‑Nazis among the European countries, up to them doing actual pogroms of Central Asian migrant workers, them being targeted and killed, with the authorities usually turning a blind eye. They even ran bootcamps for European neo‑Nazis.

 

[Pluvia Arenae]

At least the feds know where to look for domestic terrorists. There's nowhere for these cockroaches to hide now.

The places where they hide still exist. Having prominent communities allowing or even welcoming their ideology means they can recruit more people who previously would not have known about or sought out those places.